Welcome to the Dear Menopause show!
March 30, 2023

Dr Linda Dear on giving menopausal women in NZ and Australia a voice

Dr Linda Dear on giving menopausal women in NZ and Australia a voice
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How can we measure the true impact of perimenopause and menopause?

By giving women a voice. 

Dr Linda Dear crafted and launched the most extensive online survey for women to share the impact of menopause on their lives with data being collected across both NZ and Australia.

And the results of these surveys will be shared with the respective governments and health and employment sectors to craft much-needed change.

In her own words, Dr Dear is a doctor, menopause specialist, perimenopausal woman, mother of two young, exhausting but wonderful boys, ex-personal trainer and yoga teacher, ex-gymnast and psychology graduate.

With these skills and qualifications, she provides women at her specialist menopausal clinic with a unique and holistic approach to medicine and menopause therapy.

In this episode you will learn:

  • What led Linda to found a specialist menopause clinic with minimum 1-hour consultations
  • Why Linda crafted the survey and what change she hopes the results will drive
  • How Linda found her way from a UK Commonwealth Games Gymnast to a GP in New Zealand

Take the Australian Survey here.
Linda's Clinic Website
This Changes Everything by Niki Bezzant

You will also enjoy listening to:
Prof Rebecca Mitchell
Dr Kelly Teagle

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[00:10] Sonya: Today you are going to meet the delightful Dr Linda Dear. Linda is a New Zealand based GP giving the voice to the women through the creation of New Zealand's and now Australia's largest survey of the impact of menopause on women's lives. Linda is fascinating. You're going to hear how she went from being a Commonwealth Games gymnast to a psychologist, to a PT and yoga teacher, to a GP who has founded a menopause specialist clinic to allow her to lead her patients through a holistic approach to medicine and their menopause treatments. Enjoy getting to know Linda.

[00:53] Sonya: Linda, thank you so much for joining me today.

[00:56] Linda: It's lovely to be here. Thank you for having me.

[00:59] Sonya: My absolute pleasure. Now, I think it would be a really good idea if we start with you introducing yourself and sharing a little bit of background on who you are because you have an English accent, which is probably going to confuse a few people.

[01:13] Linda: Yes, it might do. I'm definitely English, although I live in New Zealand now, so I'm on the same side of the planet as most of the people who listen to this. But yeah, originally I was not here on this side, I was on the other side. So I'm from Liverpool originally, in England, and then met a Kiwi when I was in my early thirty s, and we got married and we emigrated over to New Zealand. So that's how I ended up here, just meeting a Kiwi in England, which is where they all go for a while, isn't it? They all do that. The Aussies do that, so the Aussies do that as well.

[01:53] Sonya: Well, I'm actually a Kiwi. I didn't know I've actually lived here longer now than I mean, I was born and bred, I did all my schooling in New Zealand. I left when I was about 19 and so I've actually lived in Australia now for longer. But yeah, I am a Kiwi by birth. And to answer your question, yes, many Australians also leave and do the whole backpacking thing and end up in London. Probably not as many, I don't know. The generations have changed back. I know I did my great big backpacking thing through Europe. The kids nowadays, I find, tend to take little gaps in between uni and go travel for a bit and come back. They don't tend to do the big relocation things so much as I know that we did. But, yeah, there were many Kiwis that ended up in London and never came home.

[02:45] Linda: No. I'm hoping my little boys do the the brief spells you're talking about and don't leave me for many, many years and go back to the place I left. It's kind of ironic, but they probably will do that when they because they've got that Kiwi ness in them and they'll probably want to go to England.

[03:02] Sonya: Great global travelers.

[03:04] Linda: Yes.

[03:06] Sonya: So I'm really keen to hear about your pathway that led you to what you're doing today, because, yes, you are in New Zealand, but what we haven't touched on yet is you are a GP, so you are Dr Linda Deere and you have an incredible journey that took you to becoming a GP. So I'd love for you to talk a little bit about that. From athlete to personal trainer to psychologist to GP. Share that with us.

[03:34] Linda: Yeah, it was very scenic, the route to where I am now, and partly because I was quite indecisive, I just didn't really know what I wanted to do. And I think it's quite hard, isn't it, to make those decisions when you're supposed to make them. I was kind of into arts and I was into science, so it was quite hard for me to say, well, which way do I go? And originally I went more towards arts and, well, particularly psychology. So that was my first degree and then worked in psychology for a while and then started to get very into fitness again, which I had been into when I was younger, as a sort of teenager, and sort of from about the age of eight, really, was a gymnast. Got quite good at that back then and was competing internationally and got to the Commonwealth Games. It was rhythmic gymnastics, that one.

[04:30] Sonya: The ribbons, the pretty gymnastics.

[04:33] Linda: Oh, it's pretty. It's painful, though. My God. It looks pretty, but it's pretty vicious. My hip now has really got it in for me, for all the silly stuff I did back then. So I did that. And then after psychology, I started to think, oh, I used to be fit. Maybe I should do that again. So I did. I stopped doing psychology and became a personal fitness trainer for a while and a yoga teacher. Loved that. And then started to realize, actually, I wish I was a doctor. It kind of just hit me in my mid to late twenty s and apparently I wasn't too old to go to med school so I managed to get to med school, got through that and then met my Kiwi. Husband while I was still at med school, then worked in hospitals for a while, then came to New Zealand. Started to work in a hospital here. Then we got pregnant with our first boy, and I realized I wanted to have more. Children, and I didn't really want to be a hospital doctor because I didn't really want to not be with my children. So then really started looking into general practice and trained in that. And then while doing that, a few years into that really started to realize how much perimenopause I was seeing patients and by that point in myself.

[06:03] Sonya: Yeah, and you would have had that double whammy as well of being an older mum, but so having young children and perimenopause at the same time, which I've heard can be particularly brutal.

[06:14] Linda: It can be a timing clash, that one, but, yeah, getting more common because, yes, we are waiting longer to have our babies because we want to be more settled and have a bit more money and a bit more sense. Hopefully. A lot of women are mid or late 30s before they have their babies, as I was, I was 36 and 38. And that is around the time when Perry starts knocking on the door. Whether you notice it or not is a different thing. So then you can come out of your pregnancies and you're all in the whirlwind of that. You're retired, you're fatigued, your body doesn't feel the same. And then for a lot of women, Perry is just sneaking in in the background and not being noticed even more so because you've got so many other things to blame it on and you've still got young kids and you're still knackered from being pregnant. So, yeah, that was my timing. But then again, for other women, it can be teenagers and perimenopause.

[07:13] Sonya: Yeah, true.

[07:15] Linda: Quite messy, because that's both puberties happening at the same time.

[07:21] Sonya: That is literally a hormone **** show, isn't it?

[07:23] Linda: At home, that can get messy. You don't know who's going to have the next tantrum. And obviously the one who's supposed to be older and wiser, you're supposed to know better. But as I say in a video I made a while ago, my version of Perry is, well, I'm a middle aged teenager, that's what I am. Recognize it. And you cringe a bit sometimes at what you're saying or thinking, but it is quite hard to control it and you can't get away with it as easily as when you were a teenager. For real. You can't just curl up in your head, ignore everything. But that's kind of what you want to do sometimes, isn't it?

[08:09] Sonya: It sure is. Pull that duner up over yourself and just hibernate from the world and grunted, everybody. Wouldn't that be amazing?

[08:16] Linda: Yes. And just eat a big bag of chips and watch box sets and not do any chores whatsoever.

[08:24] Sonya: So ever. Never do your washing.

[08:26] Linda: Just think someone else do that. But you've got no mum coming to help you.

[08:31] Sonya: No, that's right. Yeah, because you are the mum or.

[08:35] Linda: The mum, but you're a teenager again and, yeah, it's quite a moment, but, yeah, I had very small boys. I mean, they're still pretty small, they're five and seven, they're not fully grown up yet. And boys are quite hard work. They don't sit still ever and you're just waiting for the next injury most of the time. So it doesn't do your perimenopausal anxiety much good. No. Having two dangerous little boys just running around worrying you. But apart from that, I'm painting a very depressing picture here of my family life. It's wonderful, it's all wonderful. But, yeah, that was my journey to where I am now. And eventually I got to the point where trying to be a good GP was getting harder and harder. And I was running later and later and I thought, sold this. I'm going to see if women want something different, because I know I do. So I just started a clinic with 1 hour appointments that were just about perimenopause and menopause, and that was a year or so ago and I haven't looked back.

[09:51] Sonya: I can't imagine you have.

[09:53] Linda: Yeah. And it gives us more time. I can put my psychologist hat on again and my personal trainer hat on because I haven't.

[10:02] Sonya: Yeah, you've got an incredible toolkit for these ladies to be able to dip into.

[10:07] Linda: And that holistic approach is so it's better for them, it's better for the doctor, and it should be how we practice medicine. It's just not possible, firstly, because of the time constraints. But med school doesn't teach you much psychology or lifestyle, and it doesn't teach you much perimenopause.

[10:27] Sonya: No, that's right.

[10:29] Linda: It mentions menopause a bit, but the P word, as in a lot of places, it doesn't get mentioned in med school. So it is a life phase that no one has ever told you about till you get there, think, what's this? Yeah, that's me in a nutshell, really. To now, I think.

[10:57] Sonya: It'S a huge nutshell. I'm impressed by everything that you have squeezed into this incredible life that you've had. But I'm really keen to talk about, obviously, your menopause specialist practice, which we've just touched on. But also recently you crafted and created a New Zealand's first menopause survey, is that right?

[11:21] Linda: It's not entirely the first. There's a lady called Nikki Bazamt who wrote a book called Everything, and she did a survey as part of that book. And it has some great quotes from from the survey. And it was, you know, so that was probably the first one. And I think she had 500 ish or something in there. So that was fairly a good sample. And then I just thought it would be good to try and get a bit more than that, something a bit meatier and bigger. So just before Will Menopause Day last year, it was I was just get it ready to be released on Will Menopause Day in October. So I sort of sort of got a survey together, and I wanted to try and touch upon all the things I've been hearing over these many, many years from all the women I've seen, the issues that they bring. Up. Not just the symptoms, but the impact on their lives, how they have found health providers, their interactions with different health provider, what treatments they've tried and what have worked and not worked. So I just sort of pieced together all the stories I hear into some sections to say, right, let's put this in a survey and see if women want to share theirs, all the stories together. So put it together and put it out there in New Zealand first. And that's just finished recently, just in the last week or so how many.

[12:54] Sonya: Contributions did you get?

[12:57] Linda: 4200 and something.

[12:59] Sonya: Wow. What was your goal? Did you have a goal?

[13:02] Linda: My goal was 1000. So yeah, I smashed that one. And then my goal was I kept just putting the goal up. I was like, oh, well, we'll go for 2000 then. Yeah, so 4000 is wonderful. So that's a good amount to draw some conclusions from and say, look, there's something if women are willing to fill that survey in, which is quite long as well, it shows there is a need for these stories to be heard and shared out there. We need to do better for this life phase and for all of these women.

[13:46] Sonya: I think that's so important because we are talking so much right now about how things need to be better and how we need to talk about it more, but that we do need to take all those then the next steps which are, okay, so how do we do better and what changes do we need to make? Because, yeah, it's one thing to be saying let's all talk about menopause and let's lift the rug up and get all these taboo topics out in the open. But you do need to have a strategy and a plan for what comes next. And I think that's amazing that you used your initiative to pull that together.

[14:24] Linda: I think I am so interested and passionate from a personal point of view and a professional point of view that everything I do is a mission, really. And I enjoy it, even putting the hours in to create things because I know that it is hopefully going to do some good because you're right, we can raise awareness, which we should and we will continue to. But you do need some actual stuff you can get your teeth into or some data. Numbers speak louder sometimes, don't they? And sometimes numbers is what powers that be listened to rather than individual stories. So it's kind of us all coming together, I feel. It's kind of all these stories I've heard on their own in my room on a one to one basis. And then the woman puts the brave face back on and goes back out into the world and leaves my room. And it's kind of like, let's get all those sad stories together because a lot of them are very sad and then people will listen. This is what needs to change. And specifically things needs to change. And as you say, you get that detail then.

[15:46] Sonya: And also you're going direct to the source. I think often, particularly from a political standpoint, often there's this rush to okay, everyone's talking about menopause, let's do something about menopause. And they throw money at it and then they kind of announce these wishywashy policies or these wishywashy projects that they plan to put in place. But I often feel really disappointed with what comes out of those because I feel they don't actually meet the needs of the women, they meet the needs of the politics, but they're not meeting the needs of the women.

[16:22] Linda: Yeah. And that's got to be the point, hasn't it? That's got to be the goal. We don't want just some knee jerk, like you say, reaction that looks good publicly, it will take time to figure out what needs to be done and then do it properly. But yeah, giving the voice to the people who are experiencing it is how you're going to find out what it is you need to do.

[16:49] Sonya: Yeah. And that's how we're going to create long term change and long term actually make a difference long term.

[16:56] Linda: And it's kind of empowering for us as the women as well, to be making the change happen and sort of carving that change, saying what the change needs to be and feeling heard. I think we feel this life phase feels very neglected and it's about making it be heard as well seen and not warts and all, in a way, the good parts as well as the bad parts to this life phase, to shine a light on all of that. But yes, from the source itself. So we're getting the real information from us women from the ground.

[17:45] Sonya: Yeah, the ones on the ground, the boots on the ground. What are your hopes and your plans for the data that you collect as a result of this survey?

[17:55] Linda: So similar to what I'm doing with it in New Zealand. So the New Zealand results are only just finished, but I've put some of that data into a document that's gone towards the New Zealand government, who are basically trying to do a women's health strategy. And that for feedback from the public on what should be in our women's health strategy. So that opportunity I've taken to use the survey results to say, well, here's some information from 4000 New Zealand women about menopause. Maybe that should be a big part of the women's health strategy. So getting this data, and even, just like I put some quotes in there, some very powerful quotes in there, and some actual numbers, such as how many women didn't know their symptoms were due to menopause? It's a big number. And how many women tell their employer that it's not menopause isn't the reason they're taking time off, it's something else. What are the things we're hiding behind? Because we're too embarrassed to say, actually, I took some time off because of my menopause symptoms, they're that bad. So getting in under the nose of people in government is one approach, and that's the same in New Zealand as it will be in Australia and under the nose of healthcare professionals. So the Royal College of GPS, both here in New Zealand and then the one in Oz once the survey is finished there, and in terms of employers and employment, to try and highlight that menopause policies, menopause support packages in work being more aware of it and how it impacts women's jobs. So putting it under the nose of employers is another area. And then education to make it, because it is a normal life phase and we want to know it's coming, and boys and men should know it's coming as well, because it ****** affects them. They're going to have a woman they work with, live with, love, marry, are related to, or just they come across them in the street one day. It's not in isolation. It does affect men as well as women and children.

[20:27] Sonya: Absolutely, yeah. And we need the empathy and support of our loved ones and, like you say, the people we work with and our friendship groups and everybody needs to be aware. So when you talk about education, one of the things I'm reminded of there is so, Diane Danzenbrink with her Menopause Matters advocacy in the UK a number of years ago now. I know one of her big goals when she first launched was to get menopause and Perimenopause on the curriculum within the Secretary, and she achieved that within two years, is that right?

[21:02] Linda: I think it might have been even quicker than that. They had like 100 and something thousand people signing her petition. It went massive. And, yes, she got that part happened. It became part of the UK school curriculum to be in there along with puberty, to let kids of a certain age, I don't know what age, I.

[21:29] Sonya: Think it's in their high school curriculum. I'm not like you, I'm not sure what age they bring it in, but it's definitely in their high school curriculum.

[21:35] Linda: Yeah. So as they are aware of what bodies do, as bodies get older, I think there should be more brain and body education for all human beings. So it's like an instruction manual, then, that we all get given in school, a bit of psychology teaching, a bit of mini medical, some emotional intelligence. Yes. So you kind of know what your body and brain is going to get up to as you get older. And yet when a woman reaches menopause, what happens then? They should have some basic knowledge of that, whatever body parts they've got themselves, because it is really just general information about humanity, really, and normal human development. So, yes, she achieved that with that petition, so that shows it's all doable and change can happen.

[22:33] Sonya: Yeah. And the more that this work that we do, the more the conversations that we have, the more likely it is to happen. So absolutely. Here for all of that. So you've spoken a little bit about the fact that you're running the survey in Australia as well. So a big percentage of my listeners are based in Australia. So do you want to share a little bit of info around? I'll obviously share in the show notes and on all my social media platforms, my database, et cetera, how people women can participate, but how long does it roughly take to do the survey? What sort of info were they going to be asked to share?

[23:09] Linda: Yeah, so it's all on online. If you go to the website Mennosurvey.com, that's where it lives, and click through, there's a little few intro screens just to tell you why I'm doing it and that it's me doing it and it's no one else doing it. And then you get into the actual survey itself and it's got several sections in it and it starts out with a few sort of basic detail questions, but you can be completely anonymous in the survey if you want to be. And you don't have to give an email, but then it asks about the symptoms. Lots and lots of symptoms, because there are ****** lots of symptoms. I put loads on, there still not all of them. And there is sections at the end of every section to add free text if you want to share about. So it's a load of questions about what symptoms you've had, physical ones, psychological ones, how bad they were, and then there's a section on treatments, which ones have you tried, which ones were effective for you, which ones were less effective. There's a section about any healthcare professionals you might have spoken to, including your GP and how you found that interaction, how confident you felt, how heard you felt. And then there's a section on the impact of your symptoms on various parts of your life, like your relationships, your sex life, your working life, and then the questions more specifically about effects on mental health. So it kind of tries to cover all the big sort of areas. I mean, it's still not everything because Menopause is a massive area.

[24:43] Sonya: It really is.

[24:45] Linda: It really is. And its tentacles just seem to keep going, doesn't it? The more you look into it, the more you think, god, it just can affect so many things. So it can take that. The survey is quite a big one. So get yourself a cup of tea, sit yourself down, try and have some peace and quiet for 1015 minutes. People vary in how long it takes them to do it, and some people put lots of free text quotes in there that will take a bit longer, but I'd say on average 15 minutes I think is probably how long it's taking most women to do it. And we've got 1700 people in Oz have completed it so far, just over that, and it's going to continue to run for a good few months more.

[25:35] Sonya: Okay, great.

[25:36] Linda: I suppose I'm trying to match the Kiwi numbers a bit.

[25:39] Sonya: Oh, I think we should be able to beat the Kiwi numbers. We're a bigger population.

[25:46] Linda: Minimum 4000, I suppose.

[25:48] Sonya: But absolutely we could.

[25:57] Linda: Like I say, the, the address to get to it is Mennosurvey.com.

[26:01] Sonya: Wonderful.

[26:02] Linda: Do the whole thing anonymized and then all the answers will be pulled together to get some data and statistics that are specific to Australia. And then it will be useful to just see what are women going through in Australia, what is their version and experience of menopause and perimenopause like such.

[26:25] Sonya: An incredible insight and such valuable information. What has the reaction been when you've reached out to the governments and the different bodies and to the fact that you've gone ahead and created this and you're gathering this data? Are they receptive?

[26:40] Linda: I haven't heard back. The government thing I've only just sent off. So we'll wait and see on that one. There's lots of interest in the employment sector. I'd probably say out of all sectors, that's the one that really seems to be most interested, which is brilliant. There is a real sort of hunger and a growth of interest. One thing that's needed is menopause policies in every workplace as a sort of step, one basic tick, which might seem a bit like just a bit of lip service and not quite enough, but it's better than nothing, I suppose. And one thing that came out, the New Zealand survey is I think it was 2% of New Zealand workplaces actually had a menopause policy out of the women who completed it. So it's very low.

[27:33] Sonya: That's very low, yeah.

[27:35] Linda: So that's the very basic first thing they could start to do. And then beyond that, it is about making workplaces more menopause friendly, whether that's the working environment itself and the obvious things like temperature control or where someone is seated and things like that, and being preferably not stuck to a desk all day, which is actually not good for anyone at any phase of life. Chairs are one of the worst things in the world we ever invented. We're all sat in them too much.

[28:09] Sonya: It's so true.

[28:11] Linda: They are bad for your health.

[28:14] Sonya: They are everywhere. I often, because I'm a personal trainer, I talk to my clients and I talk about how the fact that often they get out of bed and then they sit in their car and the public transport and they drive to work, and then they sit at their desk all day at work and then they do the same to get home. Then they sit at their dining table to have dinner and then they sit on the couch to watch TV.

[28:33] Linda: There is all this sitting, so much sitting. It's like I did this little post on my Instagram. I was like ignore, there are too many chairs in the world. That's what I said, ignore them. It's almost like this temptation, it's like, oh, sit yourself down and your body's going no, I don't want to sit down, that's why I've got a bad back. Working environments are very seated. You're stuck in a chair, stuck on a screen, stuck in a box. And that's actually not good even for non menopausal human beings, but it's especially not good for menopausal women as well. So other things that workplaces could do is just kind of starting the conversation a bit more, having some menopause awareness seminars or days or training sessions. Nominating, someone who knows something about it within the organization to be a person that staff can go and see. So they're going to go and see someone and they're not going to feel judged, they're not going to feel getting fobbed off. It's going to be someone who actually really gets it and is going to listen and is going to do something to help them.

[29:51] Sonya: Help them. Yeah. It's really important, isn't it?

[29:54] Linda: Yeah, because we spend so much of our time at work, all of our life phases need to be looked after during our time at work. It's a huge part of our daily life.

[30:07] Sonya: And the thing that I also feel is women are in their prime right at this. When this is all starting to unravel and kind of hit them, they're often really actually just hitting their stride at work as well. And they're really starting to oftentimes if they've got older children, they've got more freedom, they've got more desire to progress within their careers, more opportunity to do so. And this all kind of comes at a time that is so disfortunate for them.

[30:42] Linda: It is, isn't it? It really does strike you down when you are just like you say, finding yourself and flourishing and you've got all the experience, you've got all that stuff in your head and suddenly your body and your brain start to let you down and you lose your confidence is a big thing.

[31:03] Sonya: Yeah, it's a huge thing.

[31:04] Linda: From what I hear, there is this real quality that is being lost from workplaces because for the wrong reasons and a bit more support means those women wouldn't get lost or not get promoted or not progress where they actually should be. So yeah, it really is important and I think workplaces are starting to realize that, that they're losing this golden time of a staff member who is you can't easily replace that woman. She's got a lot to give.

[31:44] Sonya: That's right. She's got experience and wisdom and skills and leadership and they're revered often for their wisdom and empathy and nurturing skills and all of those sorts of things.

[31:58] Linda: We are often holding everyone else together at home and at work.

[32:02] Sonya: I think we are the superglue and.

[32:06] Linda: I mean, that's exhausting and draining and there's an element of this life phase that's trying to teach us maybe we're not super women and we shouldn't say yes all the time. That doesn't make us selfish to say no and think of ourselves. So there's a little bit of that that comes into this life phase, but it shouldn't be so much that we can't get on and succeed and juggle things like we used to. There might be a little bit of us having to say, maybe I do do too much sometimes for everybody else. So you do find that selfishness. A little bit, which is not selfishness to yourself.

[32:49] Sonya: It's self care in many ways.

[32:51] Linda: It's absolutely self care. But, yeah, we are often the glue at work as well. And if you lose that member, you can lose other members as well as a result.

[33:04] Sonya: Yeah, sure.

[33:06] Linda: And just the whole atmosphere and the whole kind of community. It's another family, isn't it, at work? It can be dysfunctional.

[33:16] Sonya: That's true. I work for myself.

[33:21] Linda: It's very sensible. Yeah.

[33:25] Sonya: Linda, this has been such a great chat, and I feel like you and I could chat about this for hours on end. So I would love to have you back at some point, probably once you've collated all your data and we know some more of the outcomes, we find get the final numbers on the Australian survey as well. I think that would be amazing to have a bit of a follow up chat around that. But for now, I think it's time that we kind of wrap this up and pop a bow on it. And how I tend to do that is I ask all of my guests the same question, and that is, what are you reading, watching, or listening to right now that is bringing you joy?

[34:01] Linda: You know what I'm watching? I'm watching the mandalorian on Disney with Andre Pascal. Isn't he lovely? Yeah. Well, you can't see him, can you? For most of it.

[34:13] Sonya: I don't watch it. I have to admit. I don't watch it. My son and his girlfriend watch it. But we also are all watching The Last of US and have been watching The Last of US. And I did know that he was in it, but yeah. Is he covered up? Is he? That's a shame.

[34:28] Linda: I think at the end, he finally takes his mask off, but it's a wonderful suit he's wearing. Anyway, I'm assuming it must be him in it. I don't know.

[34:38] Sonya: That's a good point. I think the voice is pretty distinguishable from what I've heard.

[34:42] Linda: It's definitely his voice. And then little baby Yoda is just adorable in it. So it's very different to my normal day job, and it's definite escapism. I think there's not much menopause mentioned in the DeLorean.

[34:58] Sonya: It's not. And have you been a Star Wars fan from, like, way back?

[35:03] Linda: No, I'm not a Star Wars fan at all. I mean, it's having two young boys in the house, isn't it? You start talking about dance to it and Star Wars and all this other stuff. So they actually started watching it, and I've just been pulled in. Absolutely pulled in. And I think I like it more than them now.

[35:23] Sonya: Oh, I love that. I love that they've introduced you to something new and it's bringing you that little spark of joy. I think that's so cool. Thank you for your time today, and I look forward to chatting to you again soon.

[35:34] Linda: Definitely. Thanks for having me.

[35:39] Sonya: Thank you for listening today. I am so grateful to have these conversations with incredible women and experts. And I'm grateful that you chose to hit play on this episode of Dear Menopause. If you have a minute of time today, please leave a rating or a review. I would love to hear from you because you are my biggest driver for doing this work. If this chat went way too fast for you and you want more, head over to Stellarwomen.com Au podcast for the show Notes. And while you're there, take my Midlife quiz to see why it feels like Midlife is messing with your head.