81: Grace Lam on Challenging Menopause Misconceptions

Welcome to the Dear Menopause podcast, where we discuss the menopause transition to help make everyday life a little easier for women. Hi, this is Sonia and I am the host of Dear Menopause. Today, I am bringing you a conversation with Grace Lam. Now, grace is one of those people that you meet and you just want to sit down and hear her story. And it could go for hours. Grace has an incredible background in publishing, particularly in Asia, where she is one of the most leading influencers. Enjoy learning about Grace's story, but also her perimenopausal journey, which has led her into becoming a prominent advocate around perimenopause and menopausal care. Enjoy getting to know Grace Lam. Grace, welcome to Dear Menopause. It is such a delight to have you here today. Hey, sonia.

Thanks for inviting me.

Oh, I am so excited to chat to you. I think this is going to be a really exciting, passionate, fiery conversation. Why don't you introduce yourself to everyone, tell everybody a little bit about who Grace Lam is?

So hi, I'm Grace Lam. I'm age 50. I'm a proud perimenopausal woman. I'm from Hong Kong, but I lived most of my life in London, so I'm a true Hong Konger Londoner. But now I live in Perth, western Australia. I'm a huge Formula One fan Go Lewis Hamilton. I'm a fashion director, founding senior fashion editor of Book China, and I'm a new board member at Revelation Film Festival in Perth, and I'm the host for my Instagram series Me Not Paws and Uber Driver Part Time to my Son.

I love that so much. You have a very busy life Now. Okay, first of all, why Lewis Hamilton?

I mean that guy, you know, my husband and I met him at a Gucci dinner in Hong Kong. We were invited and that night was the best night of my life. He's just a really amazing driver, despite what anyone says about him. I mean, he won seven times World Champion. Hello, in my book he won eight 2021 was actually his, but Max Verstappen and he's just a really good guy on and off the track. He's just like Senna. Yeah, we miss Senna, don't we? Yes, and if I see Michael Messi in Australia, he should watch out.

Wow, fighting words, yes, Interesting. Yeah, I must admit I was a latecomer to Formula One, but my husband and my younger son got really passionate about it, I think probably during COVID, actually, when we were all in lockdown and they were still kind of doing their Formula One racing and they spent a lot of time watching it. And then there was the Formula One documentary that came out on Netflix and I started, yeah, drive to Survive. And I started really paying a lot more attention to it. I really, really enjoy it.

It's a great sport. I mean, I started watching around 1996, I think, when I was still living in London. My ex-boyfriend then was he wasn't into Formula One but he liked watching it. So he started explaining to me the rules and I was like, wow, so it's just not cars going round and round, it's not because it's about strategy money, loads of like egos going around the track and it's just an amazing. I mean, anything can change. You know, you can change a very last minute, as we know.

All right. Now the other area of your life that, if you're cool to talk about for a moment, I'm really fascinated to know a little bit more about. You're a very creative person, so you're married to a photographer, and I'm sure he also does many things like you as well. He's not just a photographer, but you worked in the fashion industry for quite some time and in particular, you worked for Vogue. Can you fill us in a little bit about what that was like?

I actually didn't do a degree in fashion design. Most people think I did. I did a degree in graphic design at St Russeltine's, so after my boarding school in the UK. So I spent high school there and then I went to Paris and took a gap year because I really want to learn French. But you know, I should have dated a French guy. Instead I dated a German guy, so that didn't really work out.

Did you learn German then? By any chance? No.

No. So my friends, from just knowing Bonjour, now I can understand bits and bobs and you know so I'm still trying to learn it now. So I went back to London from Paris and then I did like a three, four months hotel management course because my mother was like darling, you know, all my friends are like, you know, kids are doing hotel management. You should do that. No, right, you know. So I did it for like I think four, four, five months and it was really difficult, really hard, but it was not for me. So I went to Chelsea College of Art and did a foundation course and from there and I got interested in margins and did graphic design and throughout my degree I met I think the second year I met the founder of Terry ID Magazine in London. So Terry Jones gave a talk at St Martins and ID Magazine back then was like the Bible or street fashion and is that one of the coolest magazine you know, along with the phase and you know all that. So then he, I met him and I started talking to him and he was like you know, the way you dress is very cool, you want to be a stylist. I had no idea what that means. I'm not what you mean. He was a well-coming internship for us. So I started interning there during my degree and then by the time I graduated he offered me a job as his PA. But back then I was like, I don't want to be your secretary. You know, I'm creative, I'm this and that, and in hindsight I think I should have taken the job, because that would be my first job. Anyway, long story short, and then through that I met Edward Enning-Full, who was the fashion director at that point, and then he was a really very famous, and then when his assistant left, he asked me to come for an interview and then I started assisting him and then my fashion journey just took off. And then, when I was living in London, I used to go back to Hong Kong every year, like two or three times a year, to visit my family. And then one time the vice president of Condé Nast contacted me and said hey, listen, they're going to start with China. We really want you to come on board. You know, would you be interested? I'm like, oh, I don't know, living in China. I couldn't even speak Mandarin because in Hong Kong we speak Cantonese and I've never been to China. So I have this idea about living in China or China, which wasn't in my plan, basically, and I thought I was going to marry a Londoner, an English girl. I thought I was going to die in London, all of that. But then, when I was in Hong Kong, I thought, you know what, let me just go and have a look. So I went to Shanghai for like a week just to suss it out, and it was a lot more modern than I thought, it was a lot more happening than I thought and I thought, well, maybe you know. So at that point I broke up with my boyfriend. I had no ties in London. I'm like you know what, screw it, I'm just going to go. And then I went. And then, luckily, I went because I met my husband through my book journey and, yeah, it was a really good time. The other time I moved there was 2005. I was there, I worked at Booksharp Home for almost a decade and it was such an eye-opening experience for me because I've never lived or worked in China, I've never worked in Asia, so it was just good timing.

Yeah, no, I can imagine that would be really quite eye-opening, even though, as you say, you were born and bred in Hong Kong, but you'd spent a lot of your really predominantly formative years in the UK, in London, to then find yourself in Shanghai.

Yeah, I think, as a foreigner, like with Westerners, if they go and move to China, I think Shanghai is an easier place to start than Beijing. It's a lot more smaller and it's very cosmopolitan. It's a lot easier to get around and, yeah, I think it's just easier if you're going to move to China and then, once you get used to Shanghai, then you can move to other cities.

Yeah, okay. So you did 10 years with Vogue in China.

I was 10 years with Vogue? Yeah, but after two years our office were told by the government that they have to move to Beijing, so that my Edison chief asked me to move to Hong Kong because we have a satellite office there, and then I was doing a load of shoot in Hong Kong anyway. So I was travelling back and forth to Shanghai and Hong Kong. So then I relocated back to Hong Kong, where I was born. So I was like great, wicked, yeah, great. I stayed there for the rest of my time in Vogue, china. But then I was travelling around the world and always going to Shanghai or Beijing almost every month. Yeah, it was a really hectic 10 years. And to the last year before I left, when I had my son, that's when I thought you know what I'm done with this? I'm done with fashion people, very dramatic people, yeah, I can imagine. I mean there are loads of nice people, don't get me wrong. But you know there's a lot of ego, a lot of you know all that kind of jazz. And then what brought you to Australia, because you're now in Perth, yes, we came here because actually, jason is from Perth, so he left here like I don't know 25 years ago or longer actually. So he was born and bred here, but he left here when he was like 17, 18. He moved to Sydney. He spent most of his life in Sydney, but then he lived in Paris at one point and then London, and then he moved back to Sydney and then he came to Hong Kong to do a big advertising job, his first job. I still ask him how the hell did you get that job? He shot the most famous Asian celebrity in Hong Kong for a casino, a really huge casino, and it was a huge budget and all of that. And then the student that he was renting is owned by my really good friend, wing Sha. So then the team was saying to him you know, you should go and meet Grace at Vogue China. Why are you in Hong Kong? So he did, and then he came to the office and I was so busy that day but he walked into my office. He's his Italian, you know, native Italian, australian, right? So he's like talk, talk, can. Handsome, you know, very good looking. I'm like, oh my goodness, who's this party? You know, they came and showed me his portfolio. I'm like, okay, you know, interesting, I thought he could be gay, you know, because you know fashion photographer. So we didn't start shooting until much later. At least six months later. I kind of forgot that I met him. And then he emailed me and saying, hey, do you want to do some shoots together? I'm like, yeah, sure you know. So then we started dating each other and then eventually he got married and then had a kid. And then 2018, when Hong Kong started having protest, it was actually getting quite dangerous. And then Hong Kong is the safest place in the world. Seriously, like if I was like blind drunk as a girl, nothing would ever happen to me. And then it changed overnight to a point that, well, 2019, I kind of turned quite political and we didn't feel safe anymore and there was no way that what you wear determines which side are you on politically. So if you wear black or yellow, it's like are you anti-government or you pro-government? It just got too kind of crazy. And then we used to come to Perth every year anyway to visit relatives and we have a property here. So I said to Jason I'm like this might sound a bit crazy, but why don't we move back to Perth. We have a place already. Why are we paying so much rent? And Hong Kong is very expensive. Why are we paying so much rent in Hong Kong? And some wasn't going to school. I said we need to make a move. Initially he was like, oh my God, no, because he's still in his idea in his head. He still had this idea of perping really backwards. But then I reminded him, I said he's not about you anymore and he was quite happy. He's a very open-minded person. And I was like you know what? Why not, let's try it? And then we left and then soon later COVID hit and I was like whoa, that's crazy timing. And you've been in Perth since. We've been here since and it's been great. Wa is a really great place to raise children. I have to say the pros and cons with every city. I mean, even when I lived in Paris, there's pros and cons in every city, right, but I think at this point of our lives it's been really good.

I think we need to move on to the topic that we're here to talk about. I loved hearing your story, though I love hearing people's backstories. It's always so fascinating. You mentioned before your May Not Pause video series that you have started. Tell us all about that.

So I started my Perimana Pause journey about a year and a half ago and thank God to people like UK presenter Devane McCall, dr Naomi Porter I started tapping into metabolic. I don't know how I got into their page on Instagram, but I started having insomnia quite severe, and it started off being like one or two nights I couldn't sleep, and then it kind of went on for another week, two weeks, and I was like this is not how I normally, this is not my sleeping pattern because I'm a sleeper, but this is something else. So then I started tapping into women's health and all of that and then came across there because I spent a lot of time in the UK so I know who Devane McCall is. So then she started talking about menopause and my Instagram algorithm started giving me loads of menopause page right, and it was really good timing and I think I'm one of the few lucky ones that I tap into very early, early doors. So by the time I go to my GP I knew what I was talking about and I knew all the questions I had to ask her. I didn't go in thinking she could save me, just heard that GPs don't actually have enough training to know about menopause. So I basically took my life menopause notebook and just asked, firing questions to her and all that and so on. And then, because she was a woman, I thought maybe she, she understand, and she she's a older than me, she definitely went through it or she's still going through it. But nada, nothing. So she was just basically saying to me oh, yeah, yeah, you are going through. Here's some sleeping pills. And I said this is not the solution. What else can you give me? What about HRT? No, I don't think you should. You know, you know, stick my behind it all of that. And I'm like, hmm, okay, anyway. So she gave me sleeping pills, but I kind of knew that I couldn't rely on that and I don't want to either. And suddenly two of my friends simultaneously told me about my doctor, dr Lucy Karate, and I'm like this is a sign, Maybe I should like meet her. I met her on like a house on fire and then I started seeing her. So it was maybe like two, three months after my first symptoms appeared. So I had like brain fog, really bad insomnia, weight gain, the rage. Rage was like quite I'm quite moody person anyway, so I can't really blame you, of course, you know very feisty woman, but the rage is different. You know what rage is? Kind of a different kind of rage. I can't even explain to people how different it felt when I first met first few times, but I definitely realized once I clicked on I was like, okay, this is not me, this is my hormones talking. So once I clock onto that, then I kind of felt a bit more ease, you know, because I kind of realized I'm not crazy. And then so, yeah, so my doctor, lucy Karate, started prescribing me on XRT. So I'm on Easterdots with Permitrium and it worked overnight, overnight and it's been, it's just a life save. I can't tell you. Yeah, and I wish more women are more open about XRT. It took them like maybe a few weeks, few months, for them to get the right dosage and for it to work, the combination. So I'm just, I'm really, really grateful and that's why I want to, you know, share my experience and discuss with other women that experience on my IG series, because it's a really important topic that we need to talk about. And also, I knew about menopause when I was younger because my mom was going through and I really remember how, how tabillitating that it was for her. But back in Hong Kong and Chinese women, they just they're not really into like XRT and all that and they don't really talk about it either. So my mom is a very open woman so she would talk about it, but she didn't tell me the extent that what it's like to go through it. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't want my knees to go through the same thing as she did or I did, and I want younger women and men to be our allies and not ignore and just think it's our women's problem, you know.

But prevention is the key to everything Prevention, prevention and knowledge. Absolutely, there is so much power, absolutely so. This is an Instagram series that you are running, so you, I know you get on and you chat with other people that have stories, information, education to share. Anybody can jump onto your Instagram account and they can watch those videos through your Instagram Reels site of Instagram, I think, isn't it?

Yes, yes, so my Instagram handle is Grace Lam style. Yeah, I don't only talk to, you know, doctors or professionals, I talk to real women. You know, my first episode was with my really good friend, vicky, from New York, because I also want to understand what other countries are doing or not doing. So it's really important. And then I also interview Libby. So she's based in UK, she's American lady and she doesn't take HRT or MHT, but she uses a holistic way of dealing with menopause. So I think I want to give people different channels or different avenues of how to deal with perimenopause, menopause and postmenopause.

Yeah, fantastic and I think that's so important is that we share all aspects of everybody's lived experience, whether it's someone that had a natural menopause, someone that had an induced menopause whether it was someone that had an early menopause you know. and then the different avenues that are available to women to manage their symptoms, because there are lots of options and just because one option is right to someone, it doesn't mean it's going to be right for someone else. And the more stories that we can share about the different options that are out there, the more informed choices that women can make.

And also I don't understand why this is not in the education curriculum.

At schools. It is in the UK. Now it's in the high school curriculum in the UK, which is fantastic. There was a push by a woman called Jo Pibis to get it onto the curriculum. She was based in Canberra in the ACT. One of our biggest roadblocks here in Australia with anything is the fact that we have state governments. So everything is broken. And you know when this beat was so highlighted during COVID. Everything is managed at a state level. So to get anything on to, let's say, something like a school curriculum here, it has to be done at a state level. So you have to get it onto the New South Wales curriculum, then you've got to do the Victorian curriculum and then you've got to do the Western Australian curriculum and it's hard work. It's really, really hard work. But you're right, it should absolutely be a part of the sex education, reproductive education curriculum that is taught in schools.

Yeah, I mean most of us when we're in high school, we've never heard of menopause that word.

No, and it might be something that you know, like all education is at school, you know kind of goes in one air and out the other. But at least it's a seed that's planted so that when it does a conversation at least there is a little bit of something there to draw on.

Yeah, people. Just we need knowledge and we need to shine a light on it, because it's not a shameful thing to admit. I mean, when you think about it, half the world population is going to go through this, so why are we not educating people? I mean, if you can do so much, I don't understand why we can't. Anyway we might have to move to UK, I might have to move back to London.

Oh, it's such a frustrating question to go down that rabbit hole. Grace, one of the questions that I wanted to ask you was from the interviews that you've done so far on your series, what is something that you've learned that surprised you from the conversations that you've had so far?

Oh my, gosh so much. I mean people. Estrogen is everything. I didn't realise that. I didn't realise how much effect it has on me. You know the brain fog, everything. You know every cell of my body needs estrogen. And I also learned that the modern ectrality MHT I'm not talking about the olden days, ectrality has more advantage than harm. And I realised a lot. And you know what? I was quite surprised when I started my series on IG that I approached a few women I mean before I met all of you strong women a lot, so that your listener knows that we have a really strong group of women that are like menopause advocate and is an amazing group and we're all trying to do our best to advocate for menopause. Anyway, so at the beginning, when I first started this series, I was asking you know people I know, or friends, oh, do you want to come on my IG series to talk about this? And like six out of 10 people said no and I'm like, wow, why I respect your choice, but why, oh, I don't want people to know. Or you know, I'm just I know, you know. I'm like, oh, it's really frustrating for women trying to hide this or trying not to own it. And I think the more you talk. And also a lot of women, because I work in fashion. A lot of these women. They look fabulous, they're so cool, they look amazing and strong women, but I guess it's still a stigma. They don't want people to know how old they are and also they don't want to associate with old age. And they're going through this. You know change of body and all of that which I get. But the more you hide it, the more this is going to. It's just not going to have any light shining on it.

I don't know. It's just such a shame. It becomes a bigger problem as far as I'm concerned the more that we keep it in the dark and that we, you know, let it mold and fester, and just you know get grassy in the corner. And it's interesting because I think part of that you're banging up against there and maybe you weren't just talking to Australian. It's a global problem, I guess is we live in such an ageist society and ageing you know, menopause is associated with ageing and ageing is not necessarily seen as a good thing. And I find that so frustrating and heartbreaking because, for someone that has faced her own mortality at the age of 47 with my cancer diagnosis, ageing is a gift, ageing is a blessing. I think we should be grateful for every. You know it sounds hallmarky and wanky, but for every morning that we get to wake up and live another day, you know it really. I find it really really sad for those that feel they need to hide their age and not be proud of the fact that they have lived as many years on this earth as they have.

I think also because when you go through menopause our body changes so much. You know, even though I'm a natural, naturally thin person, I find that, you know, around my belly I start to gain weight, and which I don't I'm not happy about, but it's how much you're willing to push yourself to have a healthier diet, you know, exercise, all of that right, and I think a lot of women kind of lost their confidence in themselves and they don't feel good, so they don't look good, they don't bother looking good, because it's a really difficult time for women. And what I'm I find it quite surprising through this whole journey is how some organization are diminishing menopause symptoms and claim that it's not really harmful what women are experiencing and they downplay menopause symptoms. And I'm like, stop doing that, because so many of people I know, also many of my friends, are going through a really difficult, traumatic time and I just wish those organization would stop doing that. They're not team players, you know. The thing is, if you give that kind of message, then the government or, like you know, the health sector, just think oh well, they are saying that it's not debilitating. So maybe it's not, but I can assure you, every single person I know, have told me their life has. You know, their life has turned upside down. They can't work anymore or they can't have a family life. They can't have a healthy sex life, everything you know. So I don't know where those kind of misinformation comes from. You need to have a more open conversation with everybody. I tell everybody, even like a career. My FedEx career guide the other day kept calling me to go and get my package right and I'm like oh my God, is you again? I'm so sorry. I just I thought I called you but my brain fog started and then I just kind of I thought I did but I didn't. I said I'm going to come and get it today. So I went to the FedEx office yesterday to get it. I'm like was it you that called me yesterday? He was like yeah, I called you like three times. I'm like listen, I'm a perimenopausal woman. I'm a perimenopausal woman. I forget things. I said this is what I have to deal with. You need to excuse this. And then I said are you married? And start going like life story. Are you married? Do you have children? I said that's what your young wife's going to go through. So you know, watch out for it. You know, take care of her. You need to start having this conversation. It might be uncomfortable, but start spreading the word people.

I love that. I love that about you, Grace. This is what we need in the world.

It's brilliant.

We need more women like you in the world. It's brilliant. We need more people like you in the world out there having these conversations, taking the opportunities when they arise Exactly.

I'm also here to break the stereotypical image of Asian women, right? You know, we're not submissive, we're not me, I'm so far from it and a lot of people have this idea of, like you know, chinese women, asian women, are very neat and quiet and demure. I'm like, not this one.

And I am so glad that you are not. The world is a better place because of it, and I'm so glad that you have chosen Australia as your new home and you are a part of our beautiful posse of women that are advocating and campaigning and, you know, doing everything that we can to shine as big a brighter light as we can on this topic for the betterment of everybody in the community that will go through a menopausal transition.

Yeah, we need more attention. We need more funding from the government, but to the right organisations, you know, not those that are downplaying menopause. And we need to have more allies.

Yes, we've got some great allies, but we need more. For sure, grace, what are you listening to, reading or watching right now that is bringing you joy?

All right, there's so many, I don't know how long you've got, but I'll give you first my podcast, apart from yours, obviously Daymenopause. I am listening to a great parenting podcast called Parenting Health by Rob Beckett and Josh Whitaker. It's a two UK comedian and they tell it how it is being parents and it's funny and they square a lot and they just great sense of humour. Zoe Science Nutrition Podcast by Tim Spector, Making the Cut by Davina McCormack Douglas. That's so funny together. I'll just finish like all these. I've just finished Shrinking Drive to Survive, even though the last three season wasn't that good. It's just too commercial. And then Fisk, it was Splendourgisk, Amazing. Sex Education on Netflix is amazing. It's so much fun and it's a great way of understanding young people. One really good book that all parents should get is they Don't Teach this at School by Myling Klaas. It's a book about how you teach your children what happens when there's a fire, what happens when your mum fainted and you need to call 911, or whatever. It's really useful. And another more spiritual book, called In Love with the World, is by a monk. I don't know how to pronounce this Now. I don't want to get it wrong, so people don't come get me.

It's a lot you have been busy. Yes, excellent Grace, I have loved our chat. Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you, Sonia.

Thank you for listening today. I am so grateful to have these conversations with incredible women and experts and I'm grateful that you chose to hit play on this episode of Dare Menopause. If you have a minute of time today, please leave a rating or a review. I would love to hear from you, because you are my biggest driver for doing this work. If this chat went way too fast for you and you want more, head over to StellaWomencomau For the show notes and, while you're there, take my midlife quiz to see why it feels like midlife is messing with your head.